Wall Construction Question

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Re: Wall Construction Question

Postby Capebuild » Wed Jul 21, 2021 2:56 am

saltydawg wrote:I used the 939 to bond the panels of my trailer together, its incredible stuff


Thanks for the link to that video, saltydawg. I watched a few additional videos that followed that video testing the 939 adhesive. Those Styromax fg panels are pretty interesting, as well.
So the thing with the 939 is it takes 7 days for it reach it's "full cure" vs 24 hours for the PL3X. Something to consider. It's also not the cheap, nor is it easy to find a reseller. What I found is it's about 3 to 4x cost of PL, but I'm not sure I was comparing apples to apples regarding tube size.

I'll get some and test it. The other good thing, from I can tell from the videos, it doesn't seem quite as viscous as PL. What are your thoughts/experience with the thickness of the material when it comes out of the tube.... would you say it's thinner or thicker or about the same as PL3Xpremium?

thanks, again.

John

EDIT: After a bit more research I did find a supplier that sells a sausage pack (570 ml / 20 oz) for $22.... so comparing that cost with a 10oz tube of PL3X which is about $8 at the local store (maybe 6 at HD), the cost is not too much more. Also I found some viscosity data.... PL3X is 550,000 CPS whereas the 939 is 150,000 mpa ....so the 939 appears to be much less viscous, meaning easier for the material spread out when laying one panel over another (hopefully).
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Re: Wall Construction Question

Postby saltydawg » Wed Jul 21, 2021 8:10 am

Capebuild wrote:
Those Styromax fg panels are pretty interesting, as well.


Its how sawtooth ultimate and I both did out trailers

Capebuild wrote:So the thing with the 939 is it takes 7 days for it reach it's "full cure" vs 24 hours for the PL3X.

If its humid and not a panel, ie a joint its pretty well cured in 24 hours, a large panel will be longer

Capebuild wrote:I'll get some and test it. The other good thing, from I can tell from the videos, it doesn't seem quite as viscous as PL. What are your thoughts/experience with the thickness of the material when it comes out of the tube.... would you say it's thinner or thicker or about the same as PL3Xpremium?


Its thinner but I dont think its a spread out type glue, I did do joints, and used a stick to spread it out, but would not want to do a panel

Capebuild wrote:EDIT: After a bit more research I did find a supplier that sells a sausage pack (570 ml / 20 oz) for $22.... so comparing that cost with a 10oz tube of PL3X which is about $8 at the local store (maybe 6 at HD), the cost is not too much more.


I am assuming you found rs hughes?
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Re: Wall Construction Question

Postby Capebuild » Wed Jul 21, 2021 8:54 am

Yes. Found RS HUGHES. ORDERED A SAUSAGE OF GRAY. WILL LET YOU KNOW HOW IT WORKS.
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Re: Wall Construction Question

Postby saywhatthat » Wed Jul 21, 2021 12:35 pm

I'm thinking of drilling a series of small (1/4") holes in mating surfaces on slightly different angles.... so when the adhesive is applied it would fill those holes and act like little anchors for the adhesive

stops any movement but we have found you don't need to fill the holes all the way up for the added weight makes your bonding much deeper
PL3X is 550,000 CPS whereas the 939 is 150,000 mpa

What the difference on CPS and MPA.

We are building like saltydawg with a bound beam around the top. pl3 seam to work fine and fills any gap we are using $9.68 for 28 oz
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Re: Wall Construction Question

Postby Capebuild » Thu Jul 22, 2021 4:18 am

saywhatthat wrote:What the difference on CPS and MPA.


Two different methods of measuring viscosity. You can google it for more info but they are basically a 1:1..... meaning (for example) a viscosity of one substance with 10,000 CPS and another substance with a viscosity of 10,000 mpa will be similar (the same) thickness. I don't want to give the impression that I understand all the science behind this....... but just the basics :)

There are also many charts available that will give you comparisons, for instance the thickness of honey, catchup, etc. You can then compare it with materials that you are using (adhesives for example) to get an idea of how viscous that adhesive will be.
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Re: Wall Construction Question

Postby Capebuild » Fri Jul 30, 2021 4:40 am

Reporting back with "testing" results. I received the Teroson (Loctite) MS939NA and tested that against the PL3XPremium.

The original problem: I'm using okoume ply for the inner and outer layers and paper backed MDO 3/4" ply for the middle skeletonized member for my wall assembly. I had mistakenly urethaned the okoume layers prior to the wall sections being assembled. As a result, I was concerned about any adhesive effectively holding the urethaned layers together.

For the testing I applied urethane to the okoume and let it dry for more than 24 hours. When doing the adhesive testing I let the joints cure for a bit over 24 hours. When testing the PL I found the weak link was the paper backed MDO. The PL seemed to have stuck okay to the urethaned okoume but easily pulled the paper off the MDO when the okoume was pried from the MDO. The 939 was a different result. I've never used this adhesive before. It's really tough stuff. I've attached a pix of the results. You can see, for the most part, the okoume wood actually ripped apart from each other (a good thing). The 939 must penetrate into the paper of the MDO somewhat. I adhered two pieces of okoume and also okoume to MDO. Both resulted in the wood pulling apart for the most part. The 939 doesn't reach it's full cure until after 7 days (24 hours for PL). I did the testing after 24 hours, so over time the 939's bond should get even more better. So the 939 gets my vote for assembling the wall sections.

I went over the okoume panels with the orbital sander using 80 grit discs to somewhat remove the urethane a bit..... I haven't yet assembled the panels but feeling, in the end, using the 939 should be okay. The okoume outer layer also will get stapled to the paper backed MDO so not at all concerned about those 2 layer's adhesion ... it was the inner layer that I was most concerned about, since I'm not planning on using any fasteners and just relying on the adhesive.

Another lesson learned.

John

The image below shows the results of the 939 adhesive.
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