Slap some sense into me (no hatch)

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Slap some sense into me (no hatch)

Postby Squigie » Sat Aug 31, 2019 1:29 pm

Can you live without a hatch?

I've got a design on paper that I like enough that it has gone beyond my standard three-view drawings, to the point that I've dimensioned assemblies, worked out various joints, laid out roof spars, located light switches, planned wire runs, and more. (Cue Napolean Dynamite and/or Ferris Bueller clip: "I guess it's pretty serious...")

But this design has no hatch or other access doors. The only way in or out are the main doors. It makes the build substantially simpler, a bit lighter, maximizes the use of available space, and gets me to an 8-foot length.
I really, really like it.

The problem is that I fear getting extremely annoyed by having to constantly crawl inside the trailer to get anything - be it a washing bowl, cooking utensil, bug spray, or bungee cord.

I really like this design (for my needs, its simplicity, and the potential to be quite light), but the lack of access from outside seems like a long-term death sentence.

Thoughts?
Experience?

I know I've been over-thinking some things lately, but I don't think this is one of them. I think this is an important consideration.
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Re: Slap some sense into me (no hatch)

Postby Pmullen503 » Sat Aug 31, 2019 2:33 pm

A drawing would help.
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Re: Slap some sense into me (no hatch)

Postby tony.latham » Sat Aug 31, 2019 3:22 pm

But this design has no hatch...


Squigie:

Close your eyes and grit your teeth 'cause here it comes.

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I can't imagine having a teardrop without a galley. ...SMACK!

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The wind must be blowing down there in the flats. :frightened: Make a fella crazy.

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Re: Slap some sense into me (no hatch)

Postby halfdome, Danny » Sat Aug 31, 2019 6:11 pm

Life is full of challenges. :thinking:
If making a hatch or a complete teardrop was not a challenge then there would be no reason for this forum. :cry:
Buck up :running man: , meet the challenge and you'll be a better person and you won't have any "I should have" to think of or say. :goodmorning:
When I had a helper assist with me with complex projects at one store fixture shop, I'd be asked how do I know how it all goes together?
What I told him was that I did the easy stuff first, while thinking about the more complex parts and when it was time, it all went together smoothly.
You can do it :thumbsup:
:D Danny
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Re: Slap some sense into me (no hatch)

Postby Squigie » Sat Aug 31, 2019 7:15 pm

But! But! But, I got all of my weird desires crammed into 8 feet, and I really like it!
Why should practicality and livability be considered!


For those curious, this all goes back to the furnace ... again.
Having it in a transverse orientation eats a huge amount of cabin space (for proper clearances, ventilation, and installation/repair). Having it longitudinal makes cabin layout much easier, but means the exhaust must exit the rear of the trailer and the furnace must be located against that wall. Rear exhaust exit means no hatch, or an offset / partial hatch. I explored the 'no hatch' option.

I'm going to sketch an offset/partial hatch tonight and see where that takes me.

Pmullen503 wrote:A drawing would help.

I must begrudgingly admit that I am ashamed to post the drawing at this time. I kept running into dimensional anomalies while drawing up additional views, working out cabinet faces, etc.; and couldn't figure out the problem. Only yesterday, did I overlay an older design and notice that I had drawn it 3" too high (51" walls, instead of 48"...).
I was also after more of the concept of a 'no hatch' design and people's thoughts on the idea, rather than specific design feedback.
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Re: Slap some sense into me (no hatch)

Postby Wolfgang92025 » Sat Aug 31, 2019 7:22 pm

If a hatch is not on your radar, maybe a couple of small doors to get the thing you need with out having to go into the trailer itself.
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Re: Slap some sense into me (no hatch)

Postby tony.latham » Sat Aug 31, 2019 7:40 pm

What furnace are you planning around?

T
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Re: Slap some sense into me (no hatch)

Postby Pmullen503 » Sat Aug 31, 2019 8:15 pm

Wolfgang92025 wrote:If a hatch is not on your radar, maybe a couple of small doors to get the thing you need with out having to go into the trailer itself.


I was going to suggest the same thing.

My trailer has a front cargo compartment, with a hatch, and a fold down table. Not convenient straddling the hitch for cooking but for it's primary use for hauling around RC planes, it makes a handy platform for charging batteries.
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Re: Slap some sense into me (no hatch)

Postby Squigie » Sat Aug 31, 2019 10:41 pm

Thanks for the replies, guys.

I worked with the wife again tonight to lay out the floor plan of the 8-footer in painters tape, as well as a 9-footer and a 9'6" plan that we had previously thought might be "the one".
I really don't think that the difference between 8 feet and 10 feet matters all that much for my purposes. It makes me feel a bit misguided about trying so hard to condense into the smallest package possible. But when I draw up 9+ foot plans, I feel like I'm wasting space ... or creating space that will collect excess crap that doesn't actually need to be there and will just be dead weight.

Wolfgang92025 wrote:If a hatch is not on your radar, maybe a couple of small doors to get the thing you need with out having to go into the trailer itself.

I had ruled out side access doors very early on with this design.
But, for the life of me, I can't remember why.
I'm feeling like a bit of an idiot at the moment. Storage compartment side doors would probably be a viable solution. ...Especially with this particular design, as it's the only one I've drawn up that has the furnace centered (well, very slightly offset so the exhaust is centered outside) and leaves plenty of room on each side for storage.

tony.latham wrote:What furnace are you planning around?

T

Suburban NT-16SEQ.
Overkill, and then some, for a trailer in this size category; but the price was right and it ticked all the boxes I needed.

Quick hit list:
22 lbs.
Roughly 10.5" H x 10.5" W (min) cabinet required.
21" minimum compartment length - from outside skin to interior side of interior cabinet face. (Normally 23.25" minimum; but I splurged and spent the $8 for their "special" short intake pipe to allow more flexibility with design.)
Face and grill protrude 1.375" from cabinet face.
Many complicated clearances and offsets for air discharge, combustible materials, and return air. (I'm already bending or completely rewriting most of those rules in my designs; but in a manner that I feel will still allow safe and efficient operation.)
The appliance must be installed from the inside (requiring min 23" clearance in front of the cabinet face - permanent or temporary), with access provisions to plumb propane and electricity to it.



----

Oh, the irony...
So, I typed this reply up and then got distracted. I came back to the computer after, I don't know, an hour or so, and noticed that I never posted it.
During that hour, my wife saw a sketch that I was working on and asked, "Are those bunk beds? 'Cause if we could fit the kids in the one you're making, we could sell the tent trailer."
I must admit that the concept is possible in that particular design. But I don't think I could keep the 2,200 lb 'springs' in the Timbren suspension*, and the frame might require some additional thought about different materials.

*(May not be the end of the world if I bought the 3,500 lb version of what I've got. I do hope to build a more classically styled teardrop after this trailer, to tow behind the Nova... :D )


Much to sleep on tonight.
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Re: Slap some sense into me (no hatch)

Postby Squigie » Sun Sep 01, 2019 10:53 am

Morning update: This trailer isn't for the kids. They can fend for themselves. (Or, maybe I'll include them in the next one.)

I'm going to keep staring at this little no-hatch eight footer for a while and make sure side storage doors would work.
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Re: Slap some sense into me (no hatch)

Postby Tomterrific » Sun Sep 01, 2019 4:45 pm

I have a hatch but no galley. I made the trailer so I could put one of my motorcycles inside. It turns out to be really useful and comfortable even without the bike hauling usefulness.

The hatch opens above our heads. I have cut tarps to hang down from the opened hatch which gives a private standing area to change clothes. We also use a pop-up canopy over the hatch which makes for a nice living room. I just crawl in the back when I want to lie down.

The hatch opening allows our mattress to be removed and was useful moving the kids furnature to college.

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Re: Slap some sense into me (no hatch)

Postby tac422 » Sun Sep 01, 2019 5:14 pm

The Big Pink doesn't have a hatch … and we don't miss it at all.
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Re: Slap some sense into me (no hatch)

Postby TimC » Sun Sep 01, 2019 7:04 pm

What does the kid think about this no hatch plan? Oh, wait, I remember, he just wants to start building the stinkin thing. :oops:

My brother has a saying, "stop thinking and start doing". I don't know if that fits this scenario, but, you might be missing out on what the rest of us have experienced after the first build. Enjoying camping while considering " what would I do on my next build?"

I suspect whatever this build turns into it will be incredible!
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Re: Slap some sense into me (no hatch)

Postby Squigie » Sun Sep 01, 2019 8:55 pm

Thanks for the replies.
I'm building it.

TimC wrote:What does the kid think about this no hatch plan? Oh, wait, I remember, he just wants to start building the stinkin thing. :oops:

My brother has a saying, "stop thinking and start doing". I don't know if that fits this scenario, but, you might be missing out on what the rest of us have experienced after the first build. Enjoying camping while considering " what would I do on my next build?"

I suspect whatever this build turns into it will be incredible!

Correct. The little guy doesn't care what the plan is. He just wants to start cutting stuff and using the "big kids' hot glue gun", a.k.a. Mig welder.

I did reach a point where I thought I was probably over-thinking things. But this was a subject worth bringing up. ...Especially considering that it prompted me to reconsider side access doors, which I had stupidly discounted previously.

My brothers hate me when we're hunting, hiking, scouting, etc.
When they're draggin' their butts, taking constant breaks (not to be productive, just to sit on their backsides), and just piddlin' around, I always end up saying the same thing, almost reflexively, "You can't get anywhere standing still."
...To which they generally respond with something like, "Yea, well, moving slow isn't getting you any closer, is it?!"
My canned reply then comes out without any ability for me to stop it, "I'm already twenty feet closer to the top than you are..."

Overthinking aside...

I'm already planning #2. I want a classically shaped, standard ride height TD to tow behind the Nova (after I build a hitch for it). Not far into the design process - once I had my actual Timbren suspension bits to measure and work with - I realized that there was no way I could make this first trailer fit that role.
So, it'll be the new and improved version, incorporating lessons that I have not even learned yet.
Yes, that one will have a hatch (but probably still no galley).
That may have been part of my problem with waffling and indecision. I was trying to stretch the project in too many directions, even after convincing myself that it couldn't fit all of the roles.

Perhaps there will be a #3, too.

----

This is it. This is the one.
Some geometry can still change, like 'axle' location; door shape, size, and location; fender shape; rear bumper shape, geometry, and location (I have some plans there); etc. But the overall plan/design is pretty well set.
I'll start a proper build thread soon. I'm not sure if that'll happen before or after I get the design modeled in CAD. But it'll happen.
I had hoped for more a classic teardrop look. But compromises had to be made...

Image
Oh... Each square is 3".

Sorry about the photo, but my scanner is too much of a hassle to work with. I don't bother trying any more.

Now, to figure out windows...
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Re: Slap some sense into me (no hatch)

Postby tony.latham » Sun Sep 01, 2019 8:58 pm

Looks like a teardrop to me. How long's the mattress portion?

T
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