Wall / sides construction

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Re: Wall / sides construction

Postby QueticoBill » Sat Jun 19, 2021 4:35 pm

You should look at Chesapeake Light Craft teardrop. One layer of ply. Very strong.

A stressed skin panel, thin ply glued to both sides of foam, would be fine. American Plywood Association has the docs on their web site to design. I'd guess 1/8" ply on 1" xps would span up to 5 or 6 ft with no framing. Maybe 1.5 in for horizontal spans. You still need blocking for attachments. Or good glueing.
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Re: Wall / sides construction

Postby 1130451B » Sat Jun 19, 2021 8:00 pm

QueticoBill wrote:You should look at Chesapeake Light Craft teardrop. One layer of ply. Very strong.

A stressed skin panel, thin ply glued to both sides of foam, would be fine. American Plywood Association has the docs on their web site to design. I'd guess 1/8" ply on 1" xps would span up to 5 or 6 ft with no framing. Maybe 1.5 in for horizontal spans. You still need blocking for attachments. Or good glueing.

I seen the CLC teardrop, it is sorta what started my thought. As for the plywood foam panel I was thinking 1/4" plywood outside 1" foam then 1/8" meranti or some kind of finished plywood product on the inside. Where the door and windows go was thinking of making jams out of 1" plywood or chip board and gluing it to the inner and outer skin. Since it will all be fiberglass encapsulated I didn't think moisture intrusion would be an issue but I do think plywood is better than chip board. Downside is I would have to pre plan the whole thing and know where everything will go and that it won't interfere with anything else because once the panel is made it cannot be unmade to alter the design. I guess what I am asking here is, is there that much better insulation going that way or is making a frame and filling the voids with insulation nearly as good with a lot less hassle?
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Re: Wall / sides construction

Postby friz » Sat Jun 19, 2021 10:48 pm

QueticoBill wrote:You should look at Chesapeake Light Craft teardrop. One layer of ply. Very strong.

A stressed skin panel, thin ply glued to both sides of foam, would be fine. American Plywood Association has the docs on their web site to design. I'd guess 1/8" ply on 1" xps would span up to 5 or 6 ft with no framing. Maybe 1.5 in for horizontal spans. You still need blocking for attachments. Or good glueing.
The strength in the clc structure is in the curved panels and the fiberglass holding it all together.

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Re: Wall / sides construction

Postby QueticoBill » Sun Jun 20, 2021 4:44 am

Yes Friz, all the bowed panels are key. It would seem to be about the lightest weight option. Not sure I've seen it done other than the CLC. Lots of design time probably requiring some very good CAD skills and a CNC router would be very helpful.
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Re: Wall / sides construction

Postby QueticoBill » Sun Jun 20, 2021 5:01 am

1130451B

The variances and mix of interests, skills, and resources is what make for the variety of approaches and methods. The popular skeletonized ply frame with skins and foam seems popular and tolerant. I won't presume to know what's most suitable for you. I'm planning to go the frameless stressed skin route, but its a system I've worked with in my career for 40+ years. I think I was introduced to it in grad school in 1976.
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Re: Wall / sides construction

Postby 1130451B » Sun Jun 20, 2021 5:41 am

I like the CLC but it is too small. I worked with skin on frame boats so thats is where my frame with a light skin with fiberglass is coming from. The canvas or thin sheets would only serve to keep the epoxy away from the foam as you built your first layer. I think stick frame is probably the way to go from the responses because that is what the plans are in. The only thing I would have to modify is foam instead of insulation batons and fiberglass encapsulation instead of tin siding. Oh... and a big back door to load a bike.
Still cannot find examples of these vintage plans actually built, well I can for the small ones but not the 12' to 16' models, anyone know of some builds?
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Re: Wall / sides construction

Postby QueticoBill » Sun Jun 20, 2021 6:15 am

When you say vintage plans, do you mean Shastas snd Serro Scottys? I don't think 12 to 16' homebuilts are common. Can you provide a link to the plans for vintage homebuilts of this size?
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Re: Wall / sides construction

Postby 1130451B » Sun Jun 20, 2021 6:36 am

QueticoBill wrote:When you say vintage plans, do you mean Shastas snd Serro Scottys? I don't think 12 to 16' homebuilts are common. Can you provide a link to the plans for vintage homebuilts of this size?


Sure, but the links are actually at the top of the page under design resources and vintage plans. In there you can find the 4 plans I was looking at; one can be built in a 14', 16', 18' versions. I thought Shastas snd Serro Scottys were manufactured not home built; I figured I would start with a ruined vintage camper or popup, clean up the frame and build one of the below on it as opposed to a total rebuild.

http://tnttt.com/VintagePlans/14'caravan.pdf
http://tnttt.com/VintagePlans/15'caravanmechill.pdf
http://tnttt.com/VintagePlans/18'trailerscimech.pdf
http://tnttt.com/VintagePlans/weekend.pdf
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Re: Wall / sides construction

Postby tony.latham » Sun Jun 20, 2021 7:06 am

The canvas or thin sheets would only serve to keep the epoxy away from the foam as you built your first layer.


Why keep the epoxy off the foam?

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Re: Wall / sides construction

Postby 1130451B » Sun Jun 20, 2021 7:20 am

tony.latham wrote:
The canvas or thin sheets would only serve to keep the epoxy away from the foam as you built your first layer.


Why keep the epoxy off the foam?

Tony


Won't fiberglass epoxy melt/dissolve foam?
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Re: Wall / sides construction

Postby tony.latham » Sun Jun 20, 2021 7:28 am

Won't fiberglass epoxy melt/dissolve foam?


No. You're thinking of polyester resin.

Aircraft builders have been doing it for decades. It's called moldless composite construction in their world.

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Re: Wall / sides construction

Postby QueticoBill » Sun Jun 20, 2021 8:17 am

I had never looked at the vintage plans for large trailers. And I've never seen a homebuilt one as large as some of your examples.

They seem to all framed - looks like 2 x 2 - and sheathed in plywood. I would imagine you could build them with 1/4" ply glued to both sides of foam - at least 1" and maybe for 6+ feet spans, 1 1/2". That would give you a 2" thick wall. Cabinets or closets would add a lot of support - basically functioning like a bulkhead. I'd work real hard to not have any flat roof profile for the stiffness of curve provides. And I would always add solid wood at the top of wall for the wall roof joint - even if just a 1 1/2" wide strip at perimeter - but you might find other ways of doing it.

Look at the https://bowlus.com/ trailers for using the body shape for structure. A lot of strength in the curved plan and section. Or just buy it for a $ 1/4 m. :)

I did google images for the names of those plans and found nothing contemporary - just the vintage photos.

The closest here may be woodbutcher's standrop - but still not as long as you suggest. viewtopic.php?f=50&t=68091&hilit=standrop Pretty light weight for the size, and a work of very fine craftsmanship.

I think it will be challenge to keep under 3000 pounds loaded. I don't recall your goal for max weight. Googling " weight of 16' travle trailer" returned "On an average a 16 feet length travel trailer will have a unloaded weight of around 2200 lbs to around 3400 lbs."

Maybe "Teardrops n Tiny Travel Trailers" just doesn't fit what you are looking for.

Maybe
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Re: Wall / sides construction

Postby 1130451B » Sun Jun 20, 2021 10:32 am

"They seem to all framed - looks like 2 x 2 - and sheathed in plywood. I would imagine you could build them with 1/4" ply glued to both sides of foam - at least 1" and maybe for 6+ feet spans, 1 1/2". That would give you a 2" thick wall. Cabinets or closets would add a lot of support - basically functioning like a bulkhead. I'd work real hard to not have any flat roof profile for the stiffness of curve provides. And I would always add solid wood at the top of wall for the wall roof joint - even if just a 1 1/2" wide strip at perimeter - but you might find other ways of doing it." Agreed; I was looking for something like the TAB320/320CS or the Bushwaker 15FK. I had planned to modify the shape just enough to get a continuous arch and no flat spots but I was thinking more for water and snow shedding, but yeah extra strength makes a good additional bonus I didn't think of. Too bad there wasn't plans for a more teardrop shaped standup trailer.

"Look at the https://bowlus.com/ trailers for using the body shape for structure. A lot of strength in the curved plan and section. Or just buy it for a $ 1/4 m. :)" - Quarter Mill? Chump change :roll:

"I did google images for the names of those plans and found nothing contemporary - just the vintage photos." Sma here, although I did find some bottom up rebuilds where the end result basically only reused the siding, badges, and appliances. Also found some builds around the size I am thinking but they were very square and blocky and I want something more rounded and tapered off.

"The closest here may be woodbutcher's standrop - but still not as long as you suggest. viewtopic.php?f=50&t=68091&hilit=standrop Pretty light weight for the size, and a work of very fine craftsmanship." As long as it has a double to queen bed, a wet bath and some sort of kitchen, internal or external, then it would be fine. I think this is a great thread with lots of lessons to be had but the design again is really blocky.

"I think it will be challenge to keep under 3000 pounds loaded. I don't recall your goal for max weight. Googling " weight of 16' travle trailer" returned "On an average a 16 feet length travel trailer will have a unloaded weight of around 2200 lbs to around 3400 lbs."" The bushwaker is 1900lbs and the Tab's are around 2200lbs neither has an axel rating of 3500# so even if loaded to the absolute max they are both under what I can tow. Now I haven't towed too much and when I did my boss at the time determined what towed what and how much was loaded. That said my book says 5000# max, 4500# with 4 passengers and many guys I know with smaller SUV's like CRV's RAV4's and older Outbacks tow 3500#ish all the time with no issues so I think I am safe at limiting myself to 3500#. That said part of the reason why I was looking to build my own was to put a heavier axel on it because, as a family of 4, we tend to hike and mountain bike and fish and hopefully hunt. So it will have to have the capacity to also carry the gear of 4 be it 4 mountain bikes or 3 canoes\kayaks\paddle boards whatever depending on the plan and destination.
My mother has a 1970's Bell M-1700 that has front dinette, rear bed, bunk above that, furnace, and wetbath she uses as a bunk house and it is listed at 2700#; in all I don't think it is unreasonable to expect a package weight of under 3500# in a trailer under 16'. Then again that is speculating, I really don't know for sure. If I can find a vintage trailer to rebuild I would rather rebuild and upgrade the axel than build something.

"Maybe "Teardrops n Tiny Travel Trailers" just doesn't fit what you are looking for." Well how small is small? a 22' camper is small compared to a 38' gooseneck trailer; the site features plans for trailers bigger than what I would ever want so I guess it is all interpretation.
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